Post by Minnesota Twins on Sept 13, 2023 6:37:08 GMT -5
Not really for me. You can pitch pretty meh and still get a QS so it's not much better than wins. I'm not going to fight against it tho if others are interested
Post by Texas Rangers on Sept 13, 2023 9:43:36 GMT -5
If we are talking about just adding QS I'm pretty against it as it adjusts the balance of the categories too much.
If it's a discussion about replacing Wins with QS I'm pretty neutral. I'm open to hearing different arguments, but unless I see a major benefit I tend to lean towards just keeping things the same. Both are flawed stats just in different ways. While QS is probably the better category to evaluate a SP I do like having wins as the category because it adds some value to those 7th/8th inning RPs and the opener seems to be more and more common. Not an issue currently but if the opener concept continues to grow it could be an issue over time for QS leagues.
Post by Philadelphia Phillies on Oct 4, 2023 14:26:29 GMT -5
In terms of measuring starting pitchers, Quality Starts is the superior metric to use. QS is a metric the pitcher can control, W's is not as run support is required.
QS provides a more accurate reflection of the pitching performance. W's will overvalue a SP that does ok and has above average run support, same as it will undervalue pitchers that perform great but have below average run support.
Look at Roger Clemens 2005 season for example. He started 32 games, lead the league with an insane 1.87 era and 1.00 whip and went 13-8. Roger would have had 25 quality starts that season. Much more indicative to the dominant season he had.
I know this is just one example, there's plenty more that go both ways and no metric alone is perfect. But in my opinion, using QS is better than using Ws and is something the league should consider long term.
Post by torontobluejays on Oct 4, 2023 15:50:09 GMT -5
QS is another form of ERA. The only two stats involved are innings and earned runs. Also, the pitcher does not control a QS. For example, a SP starts the 7th having given up only two runs. He walks the first two batters and is pulled. The RP gives up a 2 run triple. The SP just lost his QS. I am against adding QS as a stat or substituting it for another.
Post by Philadelphia Phillies on Oct 4, 2023 16:15:47 GMT -5
Ok. Maybe the correct way to state it is the SP has more control over a QS. The SP has very little, and in most cases, no impact on run support. I understand the SP can't control what the RP does in that scenario, but he did give up the two walks. That's on him.
The only stats involved in Ws are IP's and team runs scored. The second has nothing to do with the pitching performance. At least both measurements in QS are related to the pitchers performance.
I'm in favor of replacing W's with QS, as it's the better metric.
Post by torontobluejays on Oct 5, 2023 9:37:06 GMT -5
I understand what you are saying about QS, but I don't think we need two stats basically measure ERA. We have other pitching stats that help measure the quality of a pitcher. We already use K's, ERA and WHIP. I see no need to change the stats we use.
I appreciate the good debate here. I tend to lean more towards Philly’s perspective about Wins versus Quality Starts. The sport has evolved and SP no longer go that deep into games. However, that being said, if I look at at guy like Kyle Gibson this year, he had 15 wins and 17 QS. There is not that much difference between the 2 stats. If the difference between the stats was astronomical, I would back this proposal. However, I think the difference between the stats is negligible, and really doesn’t impact our business.
Besides, for us to consider a major rule change like this, I would want at least 2/3rds of the league managers onboard.
I really do appreciate the respectful banter. This tells me that we have managers engaged in this league. I could get used to this.
Something else to consider regarding Wins. How many late inning relief pitchers blow a save opportunity, but yet come away with a Win? RP is a big part of our league.
